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Walking Through the Fields: The Shawn Phillips
Interview
by Scott "Dr. Music"
Itter
Shawn
Phillips may not be a name that rings bells for the casual music
fan, but it is a name that can be tied to some of the greatest
moments in music history. Whether it's Donovan’s “Sunshine Superman”
or The Beatles’ “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,”
singer/songwriter Shawn Phillips is someone that was there. The Fab
Four had Phillips lend his vocals to “Lovely Rita,” and Donovan
and Phillips used to sit in a room and write songs together. But
this is only the beginning of the Shawn Phillips story.
This is a man that
studied sitar with Ravi Shankar and gave George Harrison some basic
lessons before the famed Beatle later found Shankar himself. He
is also, through his work with Donovan, the first artist to
introduce the sitar to popular music. Phillips also gave guitar
lessons to Joni Mitchell while she was working as a waitress in
Saskatchewan. Mitchell was interested in learning Phillips’
12-string technique. Some of the musicians that can be found on
Phillips’ albums are iconic names like Rick Wakeman, Michael Kamen,
Steve Winwood, and Eric Clapton. Other world famous artists that
Phillips has had relationships with are Delbert McClinton, The Moody
Blues, Bill Cosby, Bob Ezrin, Jerry Moss, ZZ Top, Cass Elliot, Paul
Buckmaster, Elton John and Bernie Taupin, Steve Morse, John Denver,
Paul Simon, and more.
So, surrounded by
names that are giving every bell tower in the neighborhood fits of
ringing, and playing such legendary concerts as The Isle of Wight,
Shawn Phillips has remained a name that renders only an occasional
chime. Even though he has released around 20 records and sold
millions of them, I was intrigued by how many folks in the world
still don’t know the name Shawn Phillips. Recently given the
opportunity to ask Phillips about some of these things, I came
to find a confident and educated gentleman that had all the
answers.
Dr.
Music:
The late great Bill Graham once called you "the best kept
secret in the music business." Now, after almost 20 albums and
millions sold, you still seem to be a "secret" to many people. Why
do you think that is, and would you prefer to have more fame and
popularity?
Shawn
Phillips: “I'm
not that interested in the fame, and popularity, but I would like to
have the money that comes with it. I suppose the two have to go hand
in hand. My "secrecy", is simply because none of the companies I
have ever been affiliated with have cared enough to hire a national
PR firm on an annual basis as part of the machine that creates the
fame and popularity. Also, if you use a word like xenophobia in a
song, or any word that the general public has to look up, they tend
to shy away from any semblance of intelligence in popular
music.”
Dr.
Music:
In the early 60's you were asked to play the lead in the
original production of "Jesus Christ Superstar" but declined the
offer because of your heavy recording and touring schedules at the
time. Do you ever look back and wish you had accepted that
role?
Shawn
Phillips:
“I didn't decline the role. Robert
Stigwood discovered
that he couldn't get a finger into my business pie, as it were, (or
anything else for that matter), so he fired me. In retrospect, Ted
Neeley can't get
arrested today, because he IS Jesus Christ Superstar,
and cannot be seen in any other light. So I'm quite happy the way
things turned out.”
Dr. Music: Not too many
folks are aware that you sang backing vocals on "Lovely Rita"
from The Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper's" album, which is sometimes called
the greatest record of all-time. What was that recording session
like? Was it as "magical" as one might
think?
Shawn Phillips: “Nope. It was just another
recording session, just like any other. However, it got quite
amusing watching Paul play the end chord on that song, (can't
remember the name, but it starts off with, "I read the news today oh
boy"), as they had 5 different pianos brought in just for that
chord. I heard later they used 24 pianos for
it.”
It's at this point in the interview that
I really begin to see just how special this man is. The fact
that Phillips forgets the title to one of the most famous songs
in the Beatles catalog, "A Day In The Life," tells me that he
is an artist that has spent his entire life immersed in his own
work. You have to remember, while Phillips was singing backing
vocals in the studio with his close friends John, Paul, George, and
Ringo, he was crafting his own captivating body of
work. Discussing this recording session doesn't feel like
"sacred ground" to Phillips. He is simply remembering an
ordinary day in the studio with a few close
friends.
Dr. Music: You have
lived in many places around the world - Tahiti, San Francisco's
Haight-Ashbury district, Greenwich Village in New York , London ,
Paris , Italy , South Africa , etc. Do you feel that each area
inspires your music in a different way? Is there any one
place in particular that gives you certain musical
inspiration that you don't get from any of the
others?
Shawn Phillips: “I
must dispel the myth that I lived in Haight-Ashbury. I never lived there, and only
visited momentarily. The only thing that inspires me musically is
life itself, both inner, and outer. However, that being said, I find
that I become more prolific if I can see the drama of the
ocean.”
Dr. Music: You've worked
with, and/or have been associated with, some of the biggest names in
music history: Paul Buckmaster, Steve Winwood, Elton John, Eric
Clapton, Donovan, The Beatles, etc. Is there anyone that you have
not worked with but would like to?
Shawn Phillips: “Yes. Yo Yo
Ma”
Dr. Music:
Are there any up-and-coming artists from today's music scene
that have made an impression on
you?
Shawn
Phillips:
“No.”
Phillips'
simple answer of "No" when asked if any
up-and-coming artists have impressed him is something that I view as
"par for the course." Again, Phillips makes the heartfelt and
poignant music he does because he envelopes himself in every note.
I don't picture Shawn Phillips listening to anything other
than his own creations. Phillips is about as focused as an
artist can possibly be. Anything outside of the circle that he uses
to create his art seems insignificant. Phillips has always
remained focused and confident with his own talents as a songwriter,
and his past and current catalog of great music is solid proof of
that.
Dr. Music: Your professional
relationship with Donovan has always been a bit clouded by
controversy. You only ever received one co-author credit (for
"Little Tin Soldier" on the Fairytale album). It is
believed that you contributed a great deal more to Donovan's music,
especially to the "Sunshine Superman" album. How would
you sum up your role in Donovan's
music?
Shawn
Phillips: “We
would sit in a room, and I would play guitar, and he would make up
words, for many of his songs. Who would you say wrote the music? By
the way, for publishing purposes, his real name is Donovan Phillips
Leitch. I think you can figure the rest
out as to who got the money.”
The following video clip is from the
mid-60's television show Rainbow Quest with host Pete Seeger. It
features Donovan and Shawn Phillips
as well as Rev. Gary
Davis.
Dr. Music:
You mentioned in an interview back in January of 1999 that
your manager was searching for video footage from your performance
at The Isle Of Wight. Did he ever locate anything? If so, when might
it become available?
Shawn Phillips: “I
don't think I was, or am, important enough for somebody to drag
their ass through all that footage. Maybe one
day.”
Dr. Music: "The Ballad of Casy
Deiss" is one of my favorite songs by you, or anyone else for
that matter. I do know that Casy was a close friend of
yours that got struck by lightning while walking through
the woods with an axe. At the time this happened, Casy’s wife,
Diana, was still pregnant with their third child. It
is rumored that many years later you got in touch with
that youngest daughter, and you added new lyrics to the
song to mention this daughter. Is this true? And, if so, is the
re-worked version of the song available on
CD?
Shawn
Phillips: “I never changed a word of the
song, but Diana and her daughter Ila lived with me in Italy for a
couple years after Casy died. Diana lives in San Miguel D'Allende,
and Ila is a Federal Prosecutor in San Francisco. She puts the bad
guys away. Good for
her.”
Dr. Music: How do you feel
about the internet, song downloads, and the digital age in
general coming into the music
industry?
Shawn Phillips: “Well, it takes away control from
the bean counters at least. Maybe creative music will become
available to all.”
Dr. Music: You are a trained firefighter, a certified
emergency medical technician, and a full
seagoing crew member of the National
Sea Rescue Institute.
Do you still work/volunteer in these fields; and what effect,
if any, have the experiences had on your
music?
Shawn Phillips: “Yes, I am currently a Navigator
with the National Sea Rescue Institute in Port Elizabeth South
Africa, where I live. I also do Firefighting, and EMS work with them
as part of the job. I have only written one song about my public
service work; "The Man", on "No Category." Otherwise, it's a
completely different part of my
life.”
Dr. Music: In the past you have used a much
wider range of instruments than most artists of the
singer/songwriter genre, including double-necked six- and
12-string guitars, standard electric and acoustic 6- and 12-string
guitars, and the sitar. Can we still expect to see you using this
wide variety of instruments on
stage?
Shawn Phillips: “Yes, but not the Sitar. I don't
have one right now, I have a Surbahar, (which I don't carry with me),
and the film composer J. Peter Robinson has my Gibson 12 string. I
still use my Gibson/Fender doubleneck, Gibson Dove,
Washburn 6 string,
Fender Strat, and
Robert Godin
Multiac Nylon
string, which I use to trigger MOTU's "Symphonic" plug-in, during the
gigs. I like to surprise new
listeners.”
Dr. Music:
Out
of all the wonderful experiences in your career, is there any
one particular moment that is more memorable than any other?
Shawn Phillips: “Yes, the standing ovation at the
Isle Of Wight.”
Dr. Music: Some people might ask
me who Shawn Phillips is, what should I tell
them?
Shawn
Phillips: “Tell them he's a composer of
original music, and just another human being trying to support a
wife and two year old
child.”
The following comment/question is from one of my
readers who has been a huge fan of Shawn Phillip’s music for many
years. I thought his insightful question below was definitely worth
mentioning:
Joe S. (Dr. Music reader): You were
most popular at a time of transition in this country [U.S.], with
the youth asserting themselves in a way that really had never been
done before. Much of this youthful "awakening" was centered on
opposition to the Vietnam War, anything valued by the
'Establishment,' and the expanded consciousness of
mind-expanding drugs. You were there and a part of all this as
an observer, participant, and to some extent even a leader. I
always sensed an underlying theme in some of your older music which
supported the popular themes of the day such as love and peace,
which of course, was a very easy thing to
do.
So ….how are these themes a part
of your life today? Through the world-wisdom you have gained over
the last four decades, do you think that you were ever misguided by
idealism (however noble), and do you share any of the
'Establishment' values today? Last, is there an important
life-lesson that you could impart to us that you haven't yet put to
song?"
Shawn Phillips: “There are 3 to 4 thousand extremely wealthy people
who run the world. They don't care about humanity. The last thing
they want is peace. I simply try to say that if the individual finds
peace, then the world finds peace. That's the way we neutralize
them.”
And
finally, I asked Phillips to give me the first thought that popped
into his head when I said the following words:
I
wanted to ask Shawn about his answer to "9/11" because I find it
mysterious and odd. But then I thought about it. I view his
answer much like an abstract painting; something that is supposed to
be left open for interpretation. Having him explain his response I
believe would have cheapened it. It is a deep response that
will get many minds to look inside themselves for an explanation,
and that's a beautiful
thing.
Shawn Phillips is a "composer of original
music." He's an intelligent gentleman that volunteers his
precious time to help others in need. He's a survivor that has seen
the uglier side of the music business, but decided never to take up
residence in that dark ghetto. Shawn Phillips is the
person that we all strive to
be.
I would like to thank Shawn Phillips for taking the time to
share his thoughts and wisdom with me, and for his grace and
inspiring spirit. Your music is a gift to all who hear it, and your
kind and caring soul is a gift to all of humanity.
Special thanks to Shawn’s manager, Arlo Hennings, for doing
his job and being so gracious about it.
And extra special thanks to Aurora for making all of this
possible.
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Shawn Phillips has just released a
live DVD entitled "Living Contribution: Live at Kirstenbosch
Gardens," as well as an accompanying 2-CD set entitled “Living
Contribution: Both Sides.” You can purchase both of these titles on
Shawn Phillips website at: www.shawnphillips.com.
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